SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 02:13 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:05 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 01:48 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 01:42 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 01:38 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 01:36 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 13 2016, 08:33 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 13 2016, 08:12 PM

Kid Buu kills without even absorbing Goku and Vegeta.

How come? Vegeta and Goku noted that Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Per Toriyama, Goku and Vegeta - Kid Buu is VASTLY stronger than Evil/Super Buu. It's not even a contest at this point.

So yes, Kid Buu beats him about as bad as Gohan did.

But for that to logically make sense that would have to mean that Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan and that is absolutely absurd.

It's only absurd because you've become emotionally invested in protecting a lie and ignoring Toriyama's statements. If Toriyama himself says that Kid Buu is stronger, and says that Goku is the strongest - those are his intentions and logically we have to look at the story with those intentions in mind.

Kid Buu is stronger - no 'ifs' 'and' or 'buts' about it. How you feel about Goku's statements are immaterial, as the final part of the story makes it abundantly clear that no one could stand up to Buu. Super states that after the defeat of Buu, Goku is the strongest.

So I'll go with Toriyama and the official material and say: STOMP for Kid Buu.

I don't recall Toriyama flat out saying Kid Buu is the strongest form of Buu or that Goku was the strongest in the Buu Saga.

Says Toriyama in a recent interview:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/Unrivalled/scan0004zh3.jpg~original

Says the Daizenshuu, created by his staff with his input:
http://web.archive.org/web/20111007094607/http://kanzentai.com/trans.php

Daizenshuu 2 : "Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest."
Daizenshuu 4: "Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most cool?
A: "I think it's Goku." The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
Daizenshuu 2: "Goku was the only one who could fight Buu."
Daizenshuu 2: " He continues to always seek the strongest! Having gotten Buu to be reincarnated, Goku waited for him above all else."
Daizenshuu 7: (Gohan's Bio outright calls him weaker than Goku): He potentially has wondrous power greater than Goku. Even with great evil gone from the world, he continues to punish the city's evildoers as a hero of justice.
[adverb
1.
possibly but not yet actually:]

Says the Editor to BOG movie, Wantabe:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/27/scriptwriter-yusuke-watanabe-confirms-battle-of-gods-name-puns/

Beyond that, the rest of the arguement requires people not to take statements at face value and just try to find technicalities to believe Goku is weaker than Gohan:

Quote:

 

The whole "You are number 1 Kakarot" line doesn't necessarily mean Goku is the strongest. It was more of Vegeta finally admitting that Goku was stronger than him.

Except that Vegeta already admitted Goku was stronger than him - once before Fusion, and AGAIN before stating that Goku was number 1. He's not making the same statement twice.

Quote:

 

It was the end of the series and Toriyama needed something like that to make Goku sound great.

Goku IS great, he's Toriyama's favorite character. He's already made Vegeta and Goku FAR superior to anyone else, it was something he had happen previously in pretty much every single DB arc but one.

Quote:

 

You still can't ignore the series by feats that have happened and have shown that Super Buu>Kid Buu and Ultimate Gohan>SS3 Goku.

Read what I posted above. Regardless of what Goku said (which as readers, we are under the impression Goku was weaker than even Fat Buu at the time) the narrative quickly changes to that of stating ONLY Goku could save the universe.

Quote:

 

I used to think Goku was the strongest too because Goku was the main character but you have to look at the series as a whole. Toriyama could just randomly say Goku is weaker than Goten that doesn't mean we have to believe it when the series has shown us otherwise.

The thing is, he's not saying anything that doesn't make sense.
If the series ended at Goku and Evil Buu fighting, maybe, but we have statements from multiple media sources and Toriyama himself telling you what he was trying to portray. There is never a statement that says Gohan is stronger than Goku or Kid Buu, but there are statements calling them stronger than everyone else.

Quote:

 

The man thought his Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2 for goodness sake.

SSj 1 and 2 are pretty similar - but he knew what SSJ3 was (and that it was Goku's strongest mode) he also knew what his intentions were when writing the story. There is also his staff, which worked with him directly fleshing out the story.

All these people can't be wrong.

Recent statement. Toriyama's recent statements aren't worth listening to much any more since fans know more about his stories than he does.

The whole Ultimate Gohan is him releasing his Potential hence why it's called Potential Unleashed. You pretty much just told me yourself that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Goku.

And uh Goku is not Toriyama's favorite character. Toriyama stated his favorite character was Piccolo and second was Hercule.

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:18 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 02:13 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:05 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 01:48 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 01:42 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 01:38 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 01:36 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 13 2016, 08:33 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 13 2016, 08:12 PM

Kid Buu kills without even absorbing Goku and Vegeta.

How come? Vegeta and Goku noted that Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Per Toriyama, Goku and Vegeta - Kid Buu is VASTLY stronger than Evil/Super Buu. It's not even a contest at this point.

So yes, Kid Buu beats him about as bad as Gohan did.

But for that to logically make sense that would have to mean that Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan and that is absolutely absurd.

It's only absurd because you've become emotionally invested in protecting a lie and ignoring Toriyama's statements. If Toriyama himself says that Kid Buu is stronger, and says that Goku is the strongest - those are his intentions and logically we have to look at the story with those intentions in mind.

Kid Buu is stronger - no 'ifs' 'and' or 'buts' about it. How you feel about Goku's statements are immaterial, as the final part of the story makes it abundantly clear that no one could stand up to Buu. Super states that after the defeat of Buu, Goku is the strongest.

So I'll go with Toriyama and the official material and say: STOMP for Kid Buu.

I don't recall Toriyama flat out saying Kid Buu is the strongest form of Buu or that Goku was the strongest in the Buu Saga.

Says Toriyama in a recent interview:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/Unrivalled/scan0004zh3.jpg~original

Says the Daizenshuu, created by his staff with his input:
http://web.archive.org/web/20111007094607/http://kanzentai.com/trans.php

Daizenshuu 2 : "Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest."
Daizenshuu 4: "Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most cool?
A: "I think it's Goku." The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
Daizenshuu 2: "Goku was the only one who could fight Buu."
Daizenshuu 2: " He continues to always seek the strongest! Having gotten Buu to be reincarnated, Goku waited for him above all else."
Daizenshuu 7: (Gohan's Bio outright calls him weaker than Goku): He potentially has wondrous power greater than Goku. Even with great evil gone from the world, he continues to punish the city's evildoers as a hero of justice.
[adverb
1.
possibly but not yet actually:]

Says the Editor to BOG movie, Wantabe:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/27/scriptwriter-yusuke-watanabe-confirms-battle-of-gods-name-puns/

Beyond that, the rest of the arguement requires people not to take statements at face value and just try to find technicalities to believe Goku is weaker than Gohan:

Quote:

 

The whole "You are number 1 Kakarot" line doesn't necessarily mean Goku is the strongest. It was more of Vegeta finally admitting that Goku was stronger than him.

Except that Vegeta already admitted Goku was stronger than him - once before Fusion, and AGAIN before stating that Goku was number 1. He's not making the same statement twice.

Quote:

 

It was the end of the series and Toriyama needed something like that to make Goku sound great.

Goku IS great, he's Toriyama's favorite character. He's already made Vegeta and Goku FAR superior to anyone else, it was something he had happen previously in pretty much every single DB arc but one.

Quote:

 

You still can't ignore the series by feats that have happened and have shown that Super Buu>Kid Buu and Ultimate Gohan>SS3 Goku.

Read what I posted above. Regardless of what Goku said (which as readers, we are under the impression Goku was weaker than even Fat Buu at the time) the narrative quickly changes to that of stating ONLY Goku could save the universe.

Quote:

 

I used to think Goku was the strongest too because Goku was the main character but you have to look at the series as a whole. Toriyama could just randomly say Goku is weaker than Goten that doesn't mean we have to believe it when the series has shown us otherwise.

The thing is, he's not saying anything that doesn't make sense.
If the series ended at Goku and Evil Buu fighting, maybe, but we have statements from multiple media sources and Toriyama himself telling you what he was trying to portray. There is never a statement that says Gohan is stronger than Goku or Kid Buu, but there are statements calling them stronger than everyone else.

Quote:

 

The man thought his Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2 for goodness sake.

SSj 1 and 2 are pretty similar - but he knew what SSJ3 was (and that it was Goku's strongest mode) he also knew what his intentions were when writing the story. There is also his staff, which worked with him directly fleshing out the story.

All these people can't be wrong.

Recent statement. Toriyama's recent statements aren't worth listening to much any more since fans know more about his stories than he does.

The whole Ultimate Gohan is him releasing his Potential hence why it's called Potential Unleashed. You pretty much just told me yourself that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Goku.

And uh Goku is not Toriyama's favorite character. Toriyama stated his favorite character was Piccolo and second was Hercule.

I guess you didn't read any of what I posted:
Daizenshuu 2 and 4 clearly list Goku as the strongest, as does his interview.

Gohan's bio says he potentially - not actually, not currently, has the ability to surpass Goku. It's referenced again in Super and then ignored. Per every source that exists, he's weaker than Goku still.

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 02:20 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:18 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 02:13 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:05 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 01:48 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 01:42 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 01:38 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 01:36 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 13 2016, 08:33 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 13 2016, 08:12 PM

Kid Buu kills without even absorbing Goku and Vegeta.

How come? Vegeta and Goku noted that Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu.

Per Toriyama, Goku and Vegeta - Kid Buu is VASTLY stronger than Evil/Super Buu. It's not even a contest at this point.

So yes, Kid Buu beats him about as bad as Gohan did.

But for that to logically make sense that would have to mean that Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan and that is absolutely absurd.

It's only absurd because you've become emotionally invested in protecting a lie and ignoring Toriyama's statements. If Toriyama himself says that Kid Buu is stronger, and says that Goku is the strongest - those are his intentions and logically we have to look at the story with those intentions in mind.

Kid Buu is stronger - no 'ifs' 'and' or 'buts' about it. How you feel about Goku's statements are immaterial, as the final part of the story makes it abundantly clear that no one could stand up to Buu. Super states that after the defeat of Buu, Goku is the strongest.

So I'll go with Toriyama and the official material and say: STOMP for Kid Buu.

I don't recall Toriyama flat out saying Kid Buu is the strongest form of Buu or that Goku was the strongest in the Buu Saga.

Says Toriyama in a recent interview:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/Unrivalled/scan0004zh3.jpg~original

Says the Daizenshuu, created by his staff with his input:
http://web.archive.org/web/20111007094607/http://kanzentai.com/trans.php

Daizenshuu 2 : "Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest."
Daizenshuu 4: "Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most cool?
A: "I think it's Goku." The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
Daizenshuu 2: "Goku was the only one who could fight Buu."
Daizenshuu 2: " He continues to always seek the strongest! Having gotten Buu to be reincarnated, Goku waited for him above all else."
Daizenshuu 7: (Gohan's Bio outright calls him weaker than Goku): He potentially has wondrous power greater than Goku. Even with great evil gone from the world, he continues to punish the city's evildoers as a hero of justice.
[adverb
1.
possibly but not yet actually:]

Says the Editor to BOG movie, Wantabe:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/27/scriptwriter-yusuke-watanabe-confirms-battle-of-gods-name-puns/

Beyond that, the rest of the arguement requires people not to take statements at face value and just try to find technicalities to believe Goku is weaker than Gohan:

Quote:

 

The whole "You are number 1 Kakarot" line doesn't necessarily mean Goku is the strongest. It was more of Vegeta finally admitting that Goku was stronger than him.

Except that Vegeta already admitted Goku was stronger than him - once before Fusion, and AGAIN before stating that Goku was number 1. He's not making the same statement twice.

Quote:

 

It was the end of the series and Toriyama needed something like that to make Goku sound great.

Goku IS great, he's Toriyama's favorite character. He's already made Vegeta and Goku FAR superior to anyone else, it was something he had happen previously in pretty much every single DB arc but one.

Quote:

 

You still can't ignore the series by feats that have happened and have shown that Super Buu>Kid Buu and Ultimate Gohan>SS3 Goku.

Read what I posted above. Regardless of what Goku said (which as readers, we are under the impression Goku was weaker than even Fat Buu at the time) the narrative quickly changes to that of stating ONLY Goku could save the universe.

Quote:

 

I used to think Goku was the strongest too because Goku was the main character but you have to look at the series as a whole. Toriyama could just randomly say Goku is weaker than Goten that doesn't mean we have to believe it when the series has shown us otherwise.

The thing is, he's not saying anything that doesn't make sense.
If the series ended at Goku and Evil Buu fighting, maybe, but we have statements from multiple media sources and Toriyama himself telling you what he was trying to portray. There is never a statement that says Gohan is stronger than Goku or Kid Buu, but there are statements calling them stronger than everyone else.

Quote:

 

The man thought his Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2 for goodness sake.

SSj 1 and 2 are pretty similar - but he knew what SSJ3 was (and that it was Goku's strongest mode) he also knew what his intentions were when writing the story. There is also his staff, which worked with him directly fleshing out the story.

All these people can't be wrong.

Recent statement. Toriyama's recent statements aren't worth listening to much any more since fans know more about his stories than he does.

The whole Ultimate Gohan is him releasing his Potential hence why it's called Potential Unleashed. You pretty much just told me yourself that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Goku.

And uh Goku is not Toriyama's favorite character. Toriyama stated his favorite character was Piccolo and second was Hercule.

I guess you didn't read any of what I posted:
Daizenshuu 2 and 4 clearly list Goku as the strongest, as does his interview.

Gohan's bio says he potentially - not actually, not currently, has the ability to surpass Goku. It's referenced again in Super and then ignored. Per every source that exists, he's weaker than Goku still.

Gohan's potential is him in the Buu saga. I already said this.

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:25 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 02:20 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:18 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 02:13 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:05 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 01:48 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 01:42 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 01:38 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 01:36 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 13 2016, 08:33 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep

Per Toriyama, Goku and Vegeta - Kid Buu is VASTLY stronger than Evil/Super Buu. It's not even a contest at this point.

So yes, Kid Buu beats him about as bad as Gohan did.

But for that to logically make sense that would have to mean that Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan and that is absolutely absurd.

It's only absurd because you've become emotionally invested in protecting a lie and ignoring Toriyama's statements. If Toriyama himself says that Kid Buu is stronger, and says that Goku is the strongest - those are his intentions and logically we have to look at the story with those intentions in mind.

Kid Buu is stronger - no 'ifs' 'and' or 'buts' about it. How you feel about Goku's statements are immaterial, as the final part of the story makes it abundantly clear that no one could stand up to Buu. Super states that after the defeat of Buu, Goku is the strongest.

So I'll go with Toriyama and the official material and say: STOMP for Kid Buu.

I don't recall Toriyama flat out saying Kid Buu is the strongest form of Buu or that Goku was the strongest in the Buu Saga.

Says Toriyama in a recent interview:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/Unrivalled/scan0004zh3.jpg~original

Says the Daizenshuu, created by his staff with his input:
http://web.archive.org/web/20111007094607/http://kanzentai.com/trans.php

Daizenshuu 2 : "Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest."
Daizenshuu 4: "Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most cool?
A: "I think it's Goku." The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
Daizenshuu 2: "Goku was the only one who could fight Buu."
Daizenshuu 2: " He continues to always seek the strongest! Having gotten Buu to be reincarnated, Goku waited for him above all else."
Daizenshuu 7: (Gohan's Bio outright calls him weaker than Goku): He potentially has wondrous power greater than Goku. Even with great evil gone from the world, he continues to punish the city's evildoers as a hero of justice.
[adverb
1.
possibly but not yet actually:]

Says the Editor to BOG movie, Wantabe:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/27/scriptwriter-yusuke-watanabe-confirms-battle-of-gods-name-puns/

Beyond that, the rest of the arguement requires people not to take statements at face value and just try to find technicalities to believe Goku is weaker than Gohan:

Quote:

 

The whole "You are number 1 Kakarot" line doesn't necessarily mean Goku is the strongest. It was more of Vegeta finally admitting that Goku was stronger than him.

Except that Vegeta already admitted Goku was stronger than him - once before Fusion, and AGAIN before stating that Goku was number 1. He's not making the same statement twice.

Quote:

 

It was the end of the series and Toriyama needed something like that to make Goku sound great.

Goku IS great, he's Toriyama's favorite character. He's already made Vegeta and Goku FAR superior to anyone else, it was something he had happen previously in pretty much every single DB arc but one.

Quote:

 

You still can't ignore the series by feats that have happened and have shown that Super Buu>Kid Buu and Ultimate Gohan>SS3 Goku.

Read what I posted above. Regardless of what Goku said (which as readers, we are under the impression Goku was weaker than even Fat Buu at the time) the narrative quickly changes to that of stating ONLY Goku could save the universe.

Quote:

 

I used to think Goku was the strongest too because Goku was the main character but you have to look at the series as a whole. Toriyama could just randomly say Goku is weaker than Goten that doesn't mean we have to believe it when the series has shown us otherwise.

The thing is, he's not saying anything that doesn't make sense.
If the series ended at Goku and Evil Buu fighting, maybe, but we have statements from multiple media sources and Toriyama himself telling you what he was trying to portray. There is never a statement that says Gohan is stronger than Goku or Kid Buu, but there are statements calling them stronger than everyone else.

Quote:

 

The man thought his Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2 for goodness sake.

SSj 1 and 2 are pretty similar - but he knew what SSJ3 was (and that it was Goku's strongest mode) he also knew what his intentions were when writing the story. There is also his staff, which worked with him directly fleshing out the story.

All these people can't be wrong.

Recent statement. Toriyama's recent statements aren't worth listening to much any more since fans know more about his stories than he does.

The whole Ultimate Gohan is him releasing his Potential hence why it's called Potential Unleashed. You pretty much just told me yourself that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Goku.

And uh Goku is not Toriyama's favorite character. Toriyama stated his favorite character was Piccolo and second was Hercule.

I guess you didn't read any of what I posted:
Daizenshuu 2 and 4 clearly list Goku as the strongest, as does his interview.

Gohan's bio says he potentially - not actually, not currently, has the ability to surpass Goku. It's referenced again in Super and then ignored. Per every source that exists, he's weaker than Goku still.

Gohan's potential is him in the Buu saga. I already said this.

You did, and unfortunately it means nothing.

The Daizenshuu is clear on this, Gohan hasn't surpassed Goku and states that he MAY but it's not something that has occurred as of yet. Even by Super, it's STATED that Goku is the strongest in the universe.

Once more, Kid Buu KILLS Evil Buu, like Toriyama says.

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 02:27 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:25 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 02:20 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:18 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 02:13 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 02:05 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 01:48 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 01:42 AM

SSbardock84

Jun 14 2016, 01:38 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 14 2016, 01:36 AM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep

But for that to logically make sense that would have to mean that Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan and that is absolutely absurd.

It's only absurd because you've become emotionally invested in protecting a lie and ignoring Toriyama's statements. If Toriyama himself says that Kid Buu is stronger, and says that Goku is the strongest - those are his intentions and logically we have to look at the story with those intentions in mind.

Kid Buu is stronger - no 'ifs' 'and' or 'buts' about it. How you feel about Goku's statements are immaterial, as the final part of the story makes it abundantly clear that no one could stand up to Buu. Super states that after the defeat of Buu, Goku is the strongest.

So I'll go with Toriyama and the official material and say: STOMP for Kid Buu.

I don't recall Toriyama flat out saying Kid Buu is the strongest form of Buu or that Goku was the strongest in the Buu Saga.

Says Toriyama in a recent interview:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/Unrivalled/scan0004zh3.jpg~original

Says the Daizenshuu, created by his staff with his input:
http://web.archive.org/web/20111007094607/http://kanzentai.com/trans.php

Daizenshuu 2 : "Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest."
Daizenshuu 4: "Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most cool?
A: "I think it's Goku." The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
Daizenshuu 2: "Goku was the only one who could fight Buu."
Daizenshuu 2: " He continues to always seek the strongest! Having gotten Buu to be reincarnated, Goku waited for him above all else."
Daizenshuu 7: (Gohan's Bio outright calls him weaker than Goku): He potentially has wondrous power greater than Goku. Even with great evil gone from the world, he continues to punish the city's evildoers as a hero of justice.
[adverb
1.
possibly but not yet actually:]

Says the Editor to BOG movie, Wantabe:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/27/scriptwriter-yusuke-watanabe-confirms-battle-of-gods-name-puns/

Beyond that, the rest of the arguement requires people not to take statements at face value and just try to find technicalities to believe Goku is weaker than Gohan:

Quote:

 

The whole "You are number 1 Kakarot" line doesn't necessarily mean Goku is the strongest. It was more of Vegeta finally admitting that Goku was stronger than him.

Except that Vegeta already admitted Goku was stronger than him - once before Fusion, and AGAIN before stating that Goku was number 1. He's not making the same statement twice.

Quote:

 

It was the end of the series and Toriyama needed something like that to make Goku sound great.

Goku IS great, he's Toriyama's favorite character. He's already made Vegeta and Goku FAR superior to anyone else, it was something he had happen previously in pretty much every single DB arc but one.

Quote:

 

You still can't ignore the series by feats that have happened and have shown that Super Buu>Kid Buu and Ultimate Gohan>SS3 Goku.

Read what I posted above. Regardless of what Goku said (which as readers, we are under the impression Goku was weaker than even Fat Buu at the time) the narrative quickly changes to that of stating ONLY Goku could save the universe.

Quote:

 

I used to think Goku was the strongest too because Goku was the main character but you have to look at the series as a whole. Toriyama could just randomly say Goku is weaker than Goten that doesn't mean we have to believe it when the series has shown us otherwise.

The thing is, he's not saying anything that doesn't make sense.
If the series ended at Goku and Evil Buu fighting, maybe, but we have statements from multiple media sources and Toriyama himself telling you what he was trying to portray. There is never a statement that says Gohan is stronger than Goku or Kid Buu, but there are statements calling them stronger than everyone else.

Quote:

 

The man thought his Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2 for goodness sake.

SSj 1 and 2 are pretty similar - but he knew what SSJ3 was (and that it was Goku's strongest mode) he also knew what his intentions were when writing the story. There is also his staff, which worked with him directly fleshing out the story.

All these people can't be wrong.

Recent statement. Toriyama's recent statements aren't worth listening to much any more since fans know more about his stories than he does.

The whole Ultimate Gohan is him releasing his Potential hence why it's called Potential Unleashed. You pretty much just told me yourself that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Goku.

And uh Goku is not Toriyama's favorite character. Toriyama stated his favorite character was Piccolo and second was Hercule.

I guess you didn't read any of what I posted:
Daizenshuu 2 and 4 clearly list Goku as the strongest, as does his interview.

Gohan's bio says he potentially - not actually, not currently, has the ability to surpass Goku. It's referenced again in Super and then ignored. Per every source that exists, he's weaker than Goku still.

Gohan's potential is him in the Buu saga. I already said this.

You did, and unfortunately it means nothing.

The Daizenshuu is clear on this, Gohan hasn't surpassed Goku and states that he MAY but it's not something that has occurred as of yet. Even by Super, it's STATED that Goku is the strongest in the universe.

Once more, Kid Buu KILLS Evil Buu, like Toriyama says.

Strongest in the Universe? So now you think Goku is stronger than both Beerus and Whis?